Building a stronger Qantas

[Simsy85]

Interesting article that sums the whole situation up perfectly.

Sky's the limit for Qantas workers

You've got to take anything that woman says with a grain of salt.

The world is not going to cave in because unions are negotiating with QANTAS.

She's a card carrying member of the Liberal Party, of course she's going to slag off Unions.

 

[straitman]

I am pretty sure it's years on type, not years as a captain or years of service.

... or perhaps a combination of both :!:

 

[ajw373]

I agree with your 1st sentence. But what is relevant is that the guy up the pointy end in the LH seat has the knowledge and experience when the .... hits the fan.

If QF ( and VA ) had a whole bunch of jb747's up their sleeve then I would be one relaxed flyer.

Agreed about experience, however experience and pay are two seperate things. Bet you there are captains on other airlines with the same amount of experience etc that are getting paid a whole heap less. Anyway I am not saying the pilots are over or under paid, just questioning what the going market rate is and where Qantas pilots sit in regards to market rate.

 

[ajw373]

Re: AJ and the myth of the 82%

Even if QF are not actively subsidising JQ on paper, their words are certainly speaking very loudly as to which airline they would rather be running into the future. Infact if I was a QF shareholder (with any clout) I'd be looking very carefully at the boards actions and reports (both written and verbal) and even potentially mounting legal action if anything was not squeeky clean in protecting QF (eg talking JQ up at the expense of talking QF down)

If your a shareholder you wouldn't give too hoots so long as the profits are coming in and the share price is going up. If that means talking up your other brands or venturing into new brands and markets then so be it.

 

[straitman]

Bet you there are captains on other airlines with the same amount of experience etc that are getting paid a whole heap less.

... and some others getting a whole lot more :!:

 

[ajw373]

You've got to take anything that woman says with a grain of salt.

The world is not going to cave in because unions are negotiating with QANTAS.

She's a card carrying member of the Liberal Party, of course she's going to slag off Unions.

Just like everything coming from the mouths of the pilots union and the maintenance union should also be taken with a grain of salt. However if I had to choose what 'that women' wrote is the most accurate account that I have ever seen. And this is coming from a card carrying member of the Labor party!

 

[medhead]

Just like everything coming from the mouths of the pilots union and the maintenance union should also be taken with a grain of salt. However if I had to choose what 'that women' wrote is the most accurate account that I have ever seen. And this is coming from a card carrying member of the Labor party!

Most accurate account ? Come on it repeats Alan Joyce verbatim. It is just as tainted as management spin as anything from the union is tainted. Seriously! Critical thinking is required. It is listed on the Oz website under "Opinion". As such it is no more accurate than some of the cough I write. It is that women's spin, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[jb747]

Gross income $310k. Allowances $15k.

If I recall correctly the pay scale works with years in the rank, not on type. A pay loss on promotion is not uncommon. I'm a 20 year captain, so I haven't taken any notice of it for a long time.

 

[Simo]

A pay loss on promotion is not uncommon.

That is a bit rough to have a pay cut on getting a promotion..

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Gross income $310k. Allowances $15k.

If I recall correctly the pay scale works with years in the rank, not on type. A pay loss on promotion is not uncommon. I'm a 20 year captain, so I haven't taken any notice of it for a long time.

Package of around $325k.

How does that compare to say a 20 year captain (same qualifications as jb747) for SQ/EK/BA (if anybody knows)?

 

[dajop]

Package of around $325k.

How does that compare to say a 20 year captain (same qualifications as jb747) for SQ/EK/BA (if anybody knows)?

Very difficult to compare on $$ figures alone, as different tax regimes apply. Not to mention costs of living.

 

[QF029]

Red Roo 1.0 was a guy I can confirm that.

This is Red Roo 2.0. No idea if this revision is Male or Female

(mind you i've probably said too much there already )

This makes sense as Red Roo 2.0 seems surprised by the level of knowledge and activity on this forum.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Very difficult to compare on $$ figures alone, as different tax regimes apply. Not to mention costs of living.

I understand, but if a QF A380 pilot is on $325k package and a SQ A380 pilot is on $150k package, that's a sizable difference.

 

[jb747]

Apples and apples comparisons are extremely hard to generate. But, about 7 years ago, I was looking at some SQ 777 jobs based in Oz, and the salary at the time was about $205k...after tax (which was probably some shonky mid Indian ocean deal). At the time though, I was being paid about $180k, so it was quite attractive. We've had numerous people leave over the years to take up contract offers with other airlines..I presume the $ would have to be reasonably attractive for that to happen.

Right now the QF salaries look high because of the way our dollar has moved against virtually all others. The comparison was rather less attractive when it was worth 47c.

Emirates provides housing and has a very low tax regime. I expect a very strong drift of A380 qualified people to them in the short term.

 

[QF WP]

As has been noted, nothing should be taken in isolation (salaries, benefits, tax structuring, standard of living) when trying to calculate "who is better off" as each item in isolation can be skewed; however it is very hard to give any true comparison even when bringing it all together (particularly when looking at International comparisons).

I think Captains (on any aircraft type) are underpaid given the level of responsibility. Alas, I'm not QF Management.

 

[medhead]

Well I know it was pooh poohed. But I still think a qualitative comparison can be made by asking what you would get if you did something else. Sure a current pilot isn't likely to switch career paths now, but what about those entering the industry. Does the current pay make it attractive for them to become pilots with that level of responsibility? Or is a different career more attractive on the whole (considering pay, responsibility, lifestyle, etc.). Qantas/airlines is not just competing for existing pilots, they are also competing for the next generation of pilots.

 

[goldy]

Right now the QF salaries look high because of the way our dollar has moved against virtually all others. The comparison was rather less attractive when it was worth 47c.

I met a UA skipper back in the day when the AU$ was US$0.5 and he was on just over 300K. Converted back to AUD at the time made it 600K. Given currency volatility, I dont think QF pilot salaries are out of line with other international airlines.

On a slight tangent... JQ would be screwed if the NZ$ appreciated markedly against the AUD when it comes to their new hire pilots being paid the AUD equivalent of NZ$40,000.

 

[Simsy85]

Just like everything coming from the mouths of the pilots union and the maintenance union should also be taken with a grain of salt. However if I had to choose what 'that women' wrote is the most accurate account that I have ever seen. And this is coming from a card carrying member of the Labor party!

I'm a card carrying member too - have been for 10 years, and i'm disillusioned by everything i see atm too, but doesn't mean I agree with the wicked witch from the Oz

A unions job is to get better conditions for thier workers.

The TWU took a vote today and counted 95% of their staff want to start industrial action.

Call the trouble making if you want, but if 1000 people in my company we're to get laid off or retrenched, i'd be outraged too.

That's 1000 jobs. 1000 families. 1000 human beings.

Qantas posted a $250 odd million profit this year.

You do the math.

 

[milehighclub]

I'm a card carrying member too - have been for 10 years, and i'm disillusioned by everything i see atm too, but doesn't mean I agree with the wicked witch from the Oz

A unions job is to get better conditions for thier workers.

The TWU took a vote today and counted 95% of their staff want to start industrial action.

Call the trouble making if you want, but if 1000 people in my company we're to get laid off or retrenched, i'd be outraged too.

That's 1000 jobs. 1000 families. 1000 human beings.

Qantas posted a $250 odd million profit this year.

You do the math.

Here is some math then:
250 cabin crew need to leave because of announcement
minus
400 who expressed final interest in VR
equals
150 employed that still wanna leave Qantas (but I believe will still be given VR)

So no cabin crew member will forcefully loose their job, and that makes up a part of that 1000 "lost jobs".

I know the same is happening in other departments who have also offered VR. However I know some areas will have to let some staff go which is always disappointing, but it is not 1000 forced.

I've attended a staff call today, and while I cannot share somethings, I can assure you there is a lot of rubbish out at the moment.

 

[ajw373]

I'm a card carrying member too - have been for 10 years, and i'm disillusioned by everything i see atm too, but doesn't mean I agree with the wicked witch from the Oz

A unions job is to get better conditions for thier workers.

The TWU took a vote today and counted 95% of their staff want to start industrial action.

Call the trouble making if you want, but if 1000 people in my company we're to get laid off or retrenched, i'd be outraged too.

That's 1000 jobs. 1000 families. 1000 human beings.

Qantas posted a $250 odd million profit this year.

You do the math.

If Costello gets into power he is going to cut 15,000+ from his staff, the Federal public service, bet there won't be massive tabloid write ups in defence of the 15000 human beings, families and jobs. In fact I bet common folk will be applauding it, until they need consular assistance only to find DFAT staff have been cut, or their centrelink payment has been screwed up because staff were cut there, or what ever services the government provides isn't there because there are 15000 less staff to do the work.

But getting back to Qantas, not sure what a profit of $250m has to do with it, what is relevant is how much profit is made compared to the asset base, in which case a $250m profit is quite poor for Qantas all things considered, moreso when you take into account this profit included $95m (not sure if tax is applied to this or not) from Rolls Royce for the A380 incident.