Short Taxi Fares (and the associated driver rage!)

[serfty]

In the mid to late 90's, Victoria made significant changes to taxi regulation occluding maximum ages for vehicles of only a few years.

For some years it improved but work-arounds to the regulations have had it regress.

From a guy who took hundreds of taxi trips yearly fifteen years ago, I can count on one hand the number I have taken this year ...

 

[djfuzz]

If arriving on a weekday, why not use a myki card and get the 901 bus every 15 minutes from the far bay of the QF arrivals inner roadway, then change at Broadmeadows station for the short trip to essendon, THEN catch a cab if you must.

Avoids aggro, and may not take a lot longer. As a handy bonus, it's also far cheaper.

I remember there used to be a bus from MEL that went down Keilor Road that I took a few times when I was 15 and inclined to do such things - that might have been semi-useful. Going to Broady and catching a train and then a cab is possibly less appealing than fighting for a short fare ride.

By the way, what experience have people had with Uber from MEL? I've only ever used it in town or from SYD. Are there usually cars around? Uber's surge pricing has put me off them for a bit, but I'm guessing it's probably not so bad for daytime arrivals.

 

[medhead]

Hahahaha. I live 3.2km from the Melbourne CBD. According to this calculation my fare should be around $8.80. Let's even round that up a bit... make it $10.

I can't get a cab (with lights and traffic) for under $15-17. Cabbies love to take routes with known queues at lights.

You've missed waiting time in that. What is also worth mentioning is in some states they use waiting time when the taxi is going slower than 30 or 40 kph.

IMO drivers who delay the trip are stupid. I'd want to get a passenger our as quick as possible and pick up the next one,and turn on that meter again

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You've missed waiting time in that. What is also worth mentioning is in some states they use waiting time when the taxi is going slower than 30 or 40 kph.

IMO drivers who delay the trip are stupid. I'd want to get a passenger our as quick as possible and pick up the next one,and turn on that meter again

i agree about the waiting time. But in some cases a driver will deliberately take a route where they know there are long queues but only three cars get around on the right-turn arrow. you sit there fuming as the meter just goes up and up waiting for lights to change. (I've had disagreements with drivers who won't take me on the route specified that skips most of the right turns or sets of lights).

 

[serfty]

I remember there used to be a bus from MEL that went down Keilor Road that I took a few times when I was 15 and inclined to do such things - that might have been semi-useful. Going to Broady and catching a train and then a cab is possibly less appealing than fighting for a short fare ride.
...

There's also the 478/479 bus service to Essendon R/S. If you can time it properly it can save 30 minutes on the 901 via Broady.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....tions/478-bus-to-melbourne-airport-54969.html

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ne-airport-stalling-preventing-bus-42608.html

 

[medhead]

i agree about the waiting time. But in some cases a driver will deliberately take a route where they know there are long queues but only three cars get around on the right-turn arrow. you sit there fuming as the meter just goes up and up waiting for lights to change. (I've had disagreements with drivers who won't take me on the route specified that skips most of the right turns or sets of lights).

That's the hard bit, being forceful, yet respectful enough to go your preferred route. However, it is your right to go the preferred route.

Earlier someone said they stop the cab and pay up if they take them the wrong way. I'd recommend making the cab driver kick you out of the cab. You must get out, but you are under no obligation to pay them. I argued with a taxi driver about taking me the long way one time, and accused him of ripping me off. He kicked me out. Then proceeded to call the police when I got out and walked off without paying. The police agreed I didn't have to pay. That was in south Australia and that was also the standard in Queensland. So if they want to argue over the route just push them about being a rip off until they ask you to get out. (In my example he did that 2 blocks from the office.)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That's the hard bit, being forceful, yet respectful enough to go your preferred route. However, it is your right to go the preferred route.

Earlier someone said they stop the cab and pay up if they take them the wrong way. I'd recommend making the cab driver kick you out of the cab. You must get out, but you are under no obligation to pay them. I argued with a taxi driver about taking me the long way one time, and accused him of ripping me off. He kicked me out. Then proceeded to call the police when I got out and walked off without paying. The police agreed I didn't have to pay. That was in south Australia and that was also the standard in Queensland. So if they want to argue over the route just push them about being a rip off until they ask you to get out. (In my example he did that 2 blocks from the office.)

there is of course a fine line between getting kicked out and deliberately getting kicked out. The latter would attract charges for theft. The former would probably get thrown out in court, but might not stop you getting charged in the first place.

 

[anat0l]

That's the hard bit, being forceful, yet respectful enough to go your preferred route. However, it is your right to go the preferred route.

Earlier someone said they stop the cab and pay up if they take them the wrong way. I'd recommend making the cab driver kick you out of the cab. You must get out, but you are under no obligation to pay them. I argued with a taxi driver about taking me the long way one time, and accused him of ripping me off. He kicked me out. Then proceeded to call the police when I got out and walked off without paying. The police agreed I didn't have to pay. That was in south Australia and that was also the standard in Queensland. So if they want to argue over the route just push them about being a rip off until they ask you to get out. (In my example he did that 2 blocks from the office.)

I wonder how that would go down in the other States. Not only that, but being able to make your case to the police. As MEL_Traveller alluded to, at first instance you may be held for prima facie theft, or at least charged and then made to answer a case in court, which may well end up being thrown out quickly (maybe even rules in absentia of the taxi driver) but you have to go through that rigmarole.

If it is the choice of the passenger to allow them to select the route they want to travel, I suppose a taxi driver is obliged to drive it, even if stated route is much more ineffective than another route? (Just saying; the driver could suggest a different route but the pax says to drive this one, then the pax gets annoyed at the end of the journey because the fare is far more expensive than they believed it should be?)

 

[Groundfeeder]

From a guy who took hundreds of taxi trips yearly fifteen years ago, I can count on one hand the number I have taken this year ...

I have been singularly unsuccessful in winning Lotto but recently I have scored the same cabbie (not from Mumbai) three times from the vast lineup at BNE DOM, who says before I realise the coincidence "I know where you live at The Gap, so relax!!"
There have been others who have collected me from home who bring me back again from the Airport, so this is spooky territory.

 

[harvyk]

i agree about the waiting time. But in some cases a driver will deliberately take a route where they know there are long queues but only three cars get around on the right-turn arrow. you sit there fuming as the meter just goes up and up waiting for lights to change. (I've had disagreements with drivers who won't take me on the route specified that skips most of the right turns or sets of lights).

If a taxi driver ever said they would not go my preferred route, I would tell them in no uncertain terms that if they don't go my preferred route, I will get them to stop the cab, I will get out, I will not pay, and I will be putting in a complaint to their taxi company.

Funny enough, this tactic has worked multiple times where the driver has decided to go my chosen route, with the worst offender trying it on in CBR (my home town), there I did put a complaint through to the taxi company and AFAIK, the driver joined the Centrelink queue the next day.

 

[anat0l]

If a taxi driver ever said they would not go my preferred route, I would tell them in no uncertain terms that if they don't go my preferred route, I will get them to stop the cab, I will get out, I will not pay, and I will be putting in a complaint to their taxi company.

Funny enough, this tactic has worked multiple times where the driver has decided to go my chosen route, with the worst offender trying it on in CBR (my home town), there I did put a complaint through to the taxi company and AFAIK, the driver joined the Centrelink queue the next day.

You were informed that the cabbie was dismissed? Just interested, because it would be a sense of justice if true (poor sod to be in that situation, but so be it).

They will likely accept your terms but you can bet your last dollar there will be no more smiles or courtesies. Then again, if you don't mind a stonewall ride (if it comes down to it), no problems.

 

[medhead]

I wonder how that would go down in the other States. Not only that, but being able to make your case to the police. As MEL_Traveller alluded to, at first instance you may be held for prima facie theft, or at least charged and then made to answer a case in court, which may well end up being thrown out quickly (maybe even rules in absentia of the taxi driver) but you have to go through that rigmarole.

If it is the choice of the passenger to allow them to select the route they want to travel, I suppose a taxi driver is obliged to drive it, even if stated route is much more ineffective than another route? (Just saying; the driver could suggest a different route but the pax says to drive this one, then the pax gets annoyed at the end of the journey because the fare is far more expensive than they believed it should be?)

You are both wrong about the theft thing. Due to safety issues taxi drivers can terminate a hiring at any time. However, if they chose to terminate the hiring the passenger is not liable for the fare as the driver has failed to get the passenger to their destination. It absolutely is not theft. I'll challenge anyone to prove my intention, when the driver does not take my preferred route.

In the situation I experienced the conversation with the police when like this:

Police:" he asked you to leave the taxi"
Me:"yes and I do so immediately"
I.e. I fulfilled my legal obligation, immediately.

Me:"he followed me and demanded payment. I do not have to pay if he terminates the hire."
Police:"that's correct"

That's south Australia. And that also matches the training I had in Queensland as a taxi driver.

As for choice of route that is absolutely the passengers choice. The driver can discuss that if they think there is a problem. But the choice is the passengers to make. On that point I think you're look into too much, based in your questions. Do you seriously think any passenger who specifies the route complains about the cost? Do you seriously think I'm suggesting that the passenger dictate the route and then complain about the cost when it is followed?

In the example I gave, I asked to travel to point B. That automatically puts the obligation onto the driver to take the shortest route. I confronted the driver when they failed to take the shortest route.

 

[anat0l]

You are both wrong about the theft thing. Due to safety issues taxi drivers can terminate a hiring at any time. However, if they chose to terminate the hiring the passenger is not liable for the fare as the driver has failed to get the passenger to their destination. It absolutely is not theft. I'll challenge anyone to prove my intention, when the driver does not take my preferred route.

In the situation I experienced the conversation with the police when like this:

Police:" he asked you to leave the taxi"
Me:"yes and I do so immediately"
I.e. I fulfilled my legal obligation, immediately.

Me:"he followed me and demanded payment. I do not have to pay if he terminates the hire."
Police:"that's correct"

That's south Australia. And that also matches the training I had in Queensland as a taxi driver.

That's very interesting. So if the driver terminates the ride and you haven't reached your destination, you're up for nothing?

I still assume you had to wait for the police. You couldn't just leave and be on your way.

I assume that if you terminate the ride (e.g. yell at the driver, "Stop, let me out here, I've had enough"), you are still liable for the fare.

Worth keeping in mind, though does sound a bit bizarre trying to act in order to induce the driver to kick you out. (I wonder if there are some drivers who will ignore your attempts and drive you there anyway, though I guess at the end of the journey you can still file a complaint to the taxi company).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You are both wrong about the theft thing. Due to safety issues taxi drivers can terminate a hiring at any time. However, if they chose to terminate the hiring the passenger is not liable for the fare as the driver has failed to get the passenger to their destination. It absolutely is not theft. I'll challenge anyone to prove my intention, when the driver does not take my preferred route.

In the situation I experienced the conversation with the police when like this:

Police:" he asked you to leave the taxi"
Me:"yes and I do so immediately"
I.e. I fulfilled my legal obligation, immediately.

Me:"he followed me and demanded payment. I do not have to pay if he terminates the hire."
Police:"that's correct"

That's south Australia. And that also matches the training I had in Queensland as a taxi driver.

there is a distinction between a driver terminated service and one where the passenger deliberately provokes a termination (if you want an example this could be a manufactured incident with the intent of evading a fare).

Whether or not the circumstances fit in to (a) or (b) may be subject to a legal determination. You may think you are covered by (a) but in fact fall in to (b). It will all depend on the circumstances.

 

[medhead]

That's very interesting. So if the driver terminates the ride and you haven't reached your destination, you're up for nothing?

I still assume you had to wait for the police. You couldn't just leave and be on your way.

I assume that if you terminate the ride (e.g. yell at the driver, "Stop, let me out here, I've had enough"), you are still liable for the fare.

Worth keeping in mind, though does sound a bit bizarre trying to act in order to induce the driver to kick you out. (I wonder if there are some drivers who will ignore your attempts and drive you there anyway, though I guess at the end of the journey you can still file a complaint to the taxi company).

No, I did not wait. Remember, if they tell you to get out then you must get out. I walked back to my office an the driver followed me. He called the police and I kept working.

If the passenger stops the hire, then yes they would have to pay.

I'm not exactly saying act to get them to kick you out. You certainly can't threaten the driver. I'm saying that you should firmly stand by your right to choose the route and accuse them of ripping you off if needed. If they choose to stop the hiring that's their problem.

 

[medhead]

there is a distinction between a driver terminated service and one where the passenger deliberately provokes a termination (if you want an example this could be a manufactured incident with the intent of evading a fare).

Whether or not the circumstances fit in to (a) or (b) may be subject to a legal determination. You may think you are covered by (a) but in fact fall in to (b). It will all depend on the circumstances.

You're reading way too much into this. Simply saying that you stand by your right to choose the route. No one in their right mind can say you tried to provoke/force them to terminate the hire if a) the driver refuses to take the preferred route, b) argues when you insist on your preferred route, and then c) kicks you out when you called them for ripping off the passenger. A and B were the issues raised by you. I'm simply saying that the answer to that situation is not to stop them and pay up.

Do what you like, but you are absolutely wrong with this theft stuff.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You're reading way too much into this. Simply saying that you stand by your right to choose the route. No one in their right mind can say you tried to provoke/force them to terminate the hire if a) the driver refuses to take the preferred route, b) argues when you insist on your preferred route, and then c) kicks you out when you called them for ripping off the passenger. A and B were the issues raised by you. I'm simply saying that the answer to that situation is not to stop them and pay up.

Do what you like, but you are absolutely wrong with this theft stuff.

it is quite foreseeable that a less well intentioned passenger could manufacture an argument with the intent of getting kicked out.

you could say all you want that the taxi driver refused to take you via the route you requested, but where is the evidence of that? does the video camera also record sound?

 

[serfty]

Hopefully there'd be a usable CCTV record to enable examining authorities to discern whether (a) or (b) post incident.


[edit]

I believe sound is part of the record.​

[/edit]

 

[medhead]

I have been singularly unsuccessful in winning Lotto but recently I have scored the same cabbie (not from Mumbai) three times from the vast lineup at BNE DOM, who says before I realise the coincidence "I know where you live at The Gap, so relax!!"
There have been others who have collected me from home who bring me back again from the Airport, so this is spooky territory.

Do you travel regularly at the same time? Getting pick up at The Gap might just mean that a couple of drivers have worked out that there is a job to the airport at a certain time. If they are in the area around that time they'll wait for you. They might also regularly do something to help out in your area and then dispatch will give them your job as a pay back. Or if this is early morning they might start at a nearby taxi base.

 

[medhead]

it is quite foreseeable that a less well intentioned passenger could manufacture an argument with the intent of getting kicked out.

you could say all you want that the taxi driver refused to take you via the route you requested, but where is the evidence of that? does the video camera also record sound?

Prove the intention. Impossible until they find a Vulcan to mind meld.

As for the question of proof, it's one word against the other and we all know taxi drivers are dodgy as....

Interesting follow up about the driver in my case. He was in the Advertiser a few weeks later for being a good guy and driving some pensioner to multiple newsagents to find her Crows or Port footy cards. No doubt with the meter running the whole time, the story certainly didn't mention him doing it for free.