The totally off-topic thread

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RooFlyer said:
yep, agree with that. But as you can't generally separate out the various promises ( the GST election a notable exception) , the elected government is entitled to claim a mandate for them all. I thought it was funny that after the last result, Shirtenwas claiming a 'mandate from Labor voters' for his policies.
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Sure. They are entitled to claim the mandate. But individually it rankles that there are issues I don't support but they all get lumped into the mix in the election process. Bit like attaching the budget supply legislation with an unpopular new act or amendment.
 
RooFlyer said:
Its an interesting philosophical question isn't it? (irrespective of the topic in question)

On the one hand "Let the politicians decide ... that's what they are there for"; on the other hand "Hang on, this isn't a 'government / governance' issue, its overturning umpteen hundreds of years of convention, and the people might actually not agree with the majority who have their backsides on the leather this year".

In general, although I do trust the government (as opposed to politicians), if it comes down to a vote of the people vs a vote in parliament (which is exactly what is being debated at the moment), I go for a vote of the people.

[snip]

I think supporters of the proposal should embrace a public vote. If they win, as they say they will, then that will settle the issue: no come-back, no more debate. Most of the current pollies appear to support it so game, set, match. If the politicians vote their personal opinions then the issue will NOT be settled in a large slice of the publics mind, and it will continue to fester.
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Not ramble on too much, I've cut a bit of your post. I've bolded the key point above; it appears, the noises are, that the majority in the leather this year are going to decide the issue regardless of what the people think. Certainly if that happens following a public vote there will be a massive festering mess. We're facing a messy, long process that appears to only have negative outcomes. I'd rather give the money to CSIRO, or pay off debt, or NBN or anything else more productive. The vote is a great idea, just all the noise says it's going to turn to crud.

Couple of points to note: (not need to reply)
The current marriage situation was created by PM Howard's changes to the marriage act.
The republic referendum asked the wrong question (for whatever reason) I thought it was always going to fail. But at least it was held concurrent with a general election.
I'm not sure there is any requirement for the government to fund advertising for either case. I imagine the current government will fund some "no" advertising.


Mandate - is an over abused word. No government has a mandate to do whatever they want. Plenty of examples of a general policy being taken to an election by a party that then forms government but without a senate majority. That party then wrong claims they must implement policy X precisely according they their preferred model, because they have a mandate. The problem is that while the voters have supported X policy, they have also imposed a senate that will review and potentially change that policy when presented in legislation. The public have given the senate a mandate as the house of review, in that case. The senate isn't a rubber stamp to government and the voters have given it the ability to review decisions. That sets limitations on claiming a mandate.

As I said mandate is an abused word.
 
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I think the Govt has to equally fund the Yes and No campaign. Other sources can tip in as they wish. I wonder where the Church groups will sit? :o

JohnK said:
Not that easy.
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No alternative there JohnK.
 
Flying mermaid said:
Yay - I am allowed to talk on this one aren't I. :)

Was very stressed for awhile over the Blue Mountains scenario - the more we looked at things the more stressed I got. Apart from no electricity, there wasn't even water that we could use! After two weeks of not sleeping, I had another go at suggesting a change in venue. Fortunately it turned out Breenhold weren't keen to have it at Easter either and had become very uncooperative. So I managed to get the whole thing swapped to Jaspers near Berry. Absolutely fantastic - they do everything and the wedding party and special guests can even stay onsite the night before and on the night. So I am now relaxed and sleeping again :)

I think everything is under control and the only real thing left is for me to find a dress! I am going to look for one in Singapore in October. This YouTube sums up the whole wedding experience for me :)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gimiDBAK2wA
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My daughter who is in final year in school got her Yr12 formal dress made in KL.
carvenong.com.my
($$ details via pm)
 
Quickstatus said:
My daughter who is in final year in school got her Yr12 formal dress made in KL.
carvenong.com.my
($$ details via pm)
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Thanks for that :). Just went to the Facebook page as well - some beautiful designs. Pity we are flyng straight to Langkawi and not going via KL. If I don't find something I like in Singapore I might need to revise my plans. Both Miss FM and Dr FM bought their year 10 formal dresses in Singapore and there was some lovely stuff around.
 
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I would like a digital subsn to The New York Times. Anyone have any suggestions on how to combine that with some points and a serious reduction rate please? Prefer not a time limited, eg 1 month etc.
 
Pushka said:
No alternative there JohnK.
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Suck it up and smile while the world collapses around you? And if that was the only issue it may just be ok. But it's constantly one issue after another non stop.

And yes I do realise you have been going through worse this year and still manage to keep your head up high.
 
JohnK said:
Suck it up and smile while the world collapses around you? And if that was the only issue it may just be ok. But it's constantly one issue after another non stop.

And yes I do realise you have been going through worse this year and still manage to keep your head up high.
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Not telling you to smile JohnK. That is unreasonable with all you are going through. Nor to suck it up. But sometimes there is little else to do but just hang on and wait for resolution or how to deal with it. My head droops a lot. But not much I can do about it now, out of my control. Just have to learn how to manage stuff. And hope I don't take too many risks in the process. And use online support groups (that are private) comprising of people who are going through exactly the same.

Not exactly looking forward to a lifetime on anticoagulants though. 'Happiness' - maybe that is best described as relief - at finally getting two related diagnoses after 6 months of tests has evaporated a little at some of the implications.
 
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RooFlyer said:
I suspect that the resistance to a public vote is that the pro-change group suspect that the public vote will go against them. The arguments about a possible hate campaign is just scare tactics and speculation.

<snip>

I think supporters of the proposal should embrace a public vote.
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I am a member of the pro-change group, and that is NOT my reason for objecting to a plebiscite. I outlined my reasons a few pages ago. The NO campaign is already trying to get the laws surrounding hate speech watered down or removed - why do you think that is? They aren't desiring it so they can talk about how gays are just like you and me, only gay. They are doing it so they can use words like f*gg*t and d*ke and call them perverts and unnatural. Now, you may very well think that in the privacy of your own mind, but can you not see how hurtful it would be for these people to be called names like that? Reinforcing ideas and feelings they have struggled against since realising they are not like everyone else in the (straight) world.

Survey after survey has shown that the majority of Australians favour marriage equality. Favours treating ALL our citizens the same. Telling them their love is no less of a thing than mine is. That the family they've built is no less valuable than yours or mine is.

I don't understand how any caring, compassionate person would be against that.
 
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suze2000 said:
<snip>

already trying to get the laws surrounding hate speech watered down or removed - why do you think that is?
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IMO those that want to change 18C are correct. When three kids from QUT can be dragged thru the courts for three years and $250K + cost over silly Facebook posts - something is wrong!
 
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RooFlyer said:
I guess you would also struggle with. YMWSTMBICPC. :)
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RooFlyer said:
yep, agree with that. But as you can't generally separate out the various promises ( the GST election a notable exception) , the elected government is entitled to claim a mandate for them all. I thought it was funny that after the last result, Shirtenwas claiming a 'mandate from Labor voters' for his policies.
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a mate was protecting him at the latest elections. As far as I concerned, as a person, I would probably but him a beer. As a union man and politician, I wouldnt use my filtered blood to douse him if he was on fire.
 
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